Dancing in the Ring by Susan E. Sage

7/9/2023

Multi-volume, multi-genre author Susan Sage introduces us to her latest and most personal book, a partially fictional memoir of recent ancestors from approximately 100 years ago, “Dancing in the Ring”:
Detroit in the 1920s proved to be the Paris of the West for many—including Catherine McIntosh and Robert Sage. These two law school students are as passionate about each other as they are their dreams.
From a poor family in the neighborhood of Corktown, Catherine learned early on, the necessity of being resilient. She becomes one of the first women in Detroit to obtain a law degree. Bob, the 'battling barrister,' boxes in order to pay for law school. Despite his gruff and tough-boy personality, he is a friend to all: judges, cops, and even a couple members of the notorious Purple Gang. The couple becomes legendary in legal circles for their commitment to social justice causes—as well as notorious in the local speakeasies and dance halls.
At first, their optimism seems boundless, as it had for many following an era of trauma and challenges that included the 1918 flu pandemic. It isn't long before their passionate courtship turns into a tempestuous marriage. Then the Great Depression hits and their lives are forever changed.

The author has leaped several hurdles in one bound! Not only providing an interesting and satisfying story, but she also offers a fictional memoir of some of her ancestors and insight into America a century ago!
The story itself is deep with multiple currents running through it and provides insights into the lives of a variety of people.
I loved this story and so will you. I give it 4.8 stars!

You can buy this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Dancing-Ring-Susan-Sage-ebook
https://www.goodreads.com/-dancing-in-the-ring
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/dancing-in-the-ring-susan-e-sage
https://www.blackrosewriting.com/romance/dancing-in-the-ring

You can follow Susan Sage:
http://twitter.com/SusanSage
https://www.susansage1.com
https://facebook.com/Susan-SageAuthor
http://www.susansage.net
http://pinterest.com/zanna56
https://www.goodreads.com/author/Susan_E_Sage
http://facebook.com/ssage56
http://www.facebook.com/mentorandhermuse

I have also reviewed another wonderful book by the author you can find the review at https://www.wordrefiner.com/book-reviews/a-mentor-and-her-muse-by-susan-sage

Tags: History, historical, fiction, family, prohibition, law, lawyer, premonition, judge, school, college, dreams,

Copyright © 2023 Mark L. Schultz except for the author’s introduction

131 Comments

Susan Sage link

7/10/2023 08:10:28 am

Thanks for your thoughts about the book, Mark! Also, I appreciate all the links you have provided. Looking forward to the interview!

Mark

7/10/2023 08:51:49 am

You are welcome, Susan. It's a pleasure to chat with you again, welcome back to the Word Refiner channel.

First question.

Please, tell us more about yourself. Perhaps something a little bit beyond your bio.

Susan Sage link

7/10/2023 09:11:47 am

Thanks for having me back, Mark! It's hard to believe it's been five years since the last interview.

Maybe like many writers, I’m an empathetic introvert. I truly enjoy being around others, but they tire me out pretty easily. When I’m around people, it’s like—with no trying on my part—I’m seeing through their eyes. When I was younger, I thought everyone had this ability...Also, I’m a native Michigander. If I don’t go ‘up north’ at least once a year, I become pretty morose. This smacks of privilege, I know, but I love water and the Great Lakes never cease to amaze me with their beauty.

Mark

7/10/2023 11:20:55 am

I think I am like you, Susan. I love the idea of an empathetic introvert. It makes a lot of sense to me.

Writing is a solitary pursuit in a big way, at least until the first or second draft is complete. After that, many self-published writers find it necessary to enlarge the circle with an alpha-reader, then maybe beta-readers after at least one more draft. Following that an editor and proofreader are necessary to make the manuscript as good as it can be.

As an author, you are used to seeing the world through the eyes of others like the characters in your stories. I never thought about that transferring to real people. It makes quite a bit of sense to me, though.

The Great Lakes are an area with much beauty and is still wild despite all of the efforts of people to tame it. It will never be completely tame.

New questions.

Are you a full-time or part-time writer?

What kind of work do you do if you are a part-time writer? Feel free to skip that question, if you would rather not answer.

Susan Sage link

7/10/2023 11:28:04 am

I have been a full-time writer for a few years now--actually, since retiring from my last job as an educator in 2018. Most of my jobs have been in schools--either teaching, tutoring, or doing administrative work. For most of my life, I was only able to write part-time.

Mark

7/10/2023 01:14:21 pm

You are like so many writers, they can only write part time because the bills have to be paid. So many starry-eyed, unpublished writers dream of writing the great American novel and rolling in dough as the world beats a path to their door. What a beautiful dream it is. As we know, the reality couldn't be much different. Most authors sell fewer than 1,000 copies, many less than 500. But the more you write and publish the more of all of your books will sell. It is a long-term game.

My situation is much like yours. I am now retired and can devote almost all of my time to proofreading and promoting books.

New questions.

Does your work have any influence on your writing?

Why did you choose this genre, or do you feel the genre chose you?

Susan Sage link

7/10/2023 02:40:44 pm

I wonder if young and unpublished authors are as starry-eyed today, as they were when I was at that stage...I'm certainly glad I didn't give up! Sadly, too many do.

On to answering your question. While I've always enjoyed reading Historical Fiction, I never thought I'd write in the genre. I definitely think the genre chose me this time around! Some of the narrative that I wrote was a family story told by my dad while I was growing up. Knowing my interest in writing, he urged me to write it. I resisted for years. Then, many years after he passed away, I finally did. I loved mixing factual research with fiction writing!

Mark

7/10/2023 05:47:39 pm

Hist-fic is my third favorite genre right after science fiction and fantasy, a close first and second. I have reviewed quite a few historical fiction stories from different time periods and geographic locations and they have all thrilled and entertained me.

That has to be wonderful feeling being able to share family stories like that. Not many get that opportunity. It certainly wasn't too difficult to place Bob and Kate and all in their time and place since Detroit was so well known then.

New questions.

How many drafts did your book go through before publishing?

Is there anything unconventional about your writing technique? Why is that?

Susan Sage link

7/10/2023 07:34:59 pm

My manuscript went through several drafts before it was published. Even a few after it had been submitted and accepted by my publisher. As far as if there's anything unconventional about my writing technique...That's not an easy one to answer, as I don't know how othr authors write. I write my first draft in a notebook and then type it in a Word document. Maybe that's considered unconventional these days? My handwriting's not the best, so I feel like I'm sometimes translating a foreign language!

Mark

7/11/2023 07:42:36 am

Writing the first draft by longhand is a little unusual these days but you are far from the only one who does that. I understand about reading your own handwriting, my cursive is nothing to brag about, but my printing is pretty good because I did it for eight hours a day as a drafting assistant in the early 70s. Before PCs and AutoCAD software.

New questions.

Why do you write?

How has writing changed your life?

Susan Sage link

7/11/2023 08:08:54 am

That’s something about your job as a drafting assistant!

I’ve asked myself why I write many times over the year. I could wax poetic and say it’s because I can’t live without doing so, but I know I could—without less enjoyment or frustration. I like to challenge myself, I guess. Also, I love to read as much now as when I was younger. I’ve often thought that writers are mainly over-excited readers. It just sort of spills over, you know?

It’s hard to know how writing has changed my life because I’ve been writing since I was ten or eleven. I’d like to hope that it makes me a better listener, a better self-critic, and in general more curious about the world. I’m a restless person, by nature. Not naturally good at detail. Writing forces you to slow down and breathe a little slower, more deeply.

Mark

7/11/2023 10:13:13 am

I love the idea that writers are very excited readers. But I am a very excited reader and yet have never felt there was a book inside me trying to come out. I am the exception to the rule. I think the rule is quite valid because almost every writer is a reader also.

It makes a lot of sense to me that not writing would constrict your quality of life. All of us, on some level, are creative individuals, it is a part of our nature. Writing is a great way to express creativity.

New questions.

Who designed the cover of your book? Feel free to drop a link if appropriate.

How many drafts did the cover go through?

Susan Sage link

7/11/2023 10:22:27 am

My cover was designed by the design team at my publisher, Black Rose Writing. All their covers are awesome! I had to send them my initial idea for it (a man and woman fighting in a boxing ring), and was sent back the present cover within a few weeks, I believe.

I didn't need to re-submit it for any changes--or I didn't feel like I needed to. While we 'can't tell a book by its cover,' attractive covers definitely help, right?

Mark

7/11/2023 12:49:43 pm

I do like the cover. Dancing on the rooftop certainly aligns with the title and the cover exudes the carefree elegance of the Roaring 20s. It's a winner! I think your idea of them being in the ring is good also, though having them dancing might have been better than boxing, depending upon execution.

We have been admonished from a young age to not judge a book by its cover, yet the truth is everyone does exactly the opposite. A cover makes a big difference in whether a book gets a second look from a prospective buyer. Many authors reissue a book with a new cover when it doesn't sell as well as they thought it should. Some authors will put a book with different covers on different sales platforms as an experiment.

A cover is just about as important as the title is, IMO.

New questions.

Was it hard to come up with the title?

What was the process?

Susan Sage link

7/11/2023 01:02:54 pm

I’m glad you like the cover, Mark! I agree that having a couple dancing in the ring works better than if they were boxing. I hadn’t thought about it before, but right you are: a book’s cover is equally as important as its title. I had a hard time coming up with a title for this one, so a dear friend helped me out. She came up with a half-dozen and I decided to go with this one. About a week later, it hit me why it sounded so familiar. You’ve probably guessed it, right? The old song ‘Dancing in the Rain’!! It was both an ‘ah-ha’ moment, as much as it was a ‘duh’ one. Still, I believed then, as I do now, that it fits the book.

Mark

7/11/2023 03:42:46 pm

I did think of the old Gene Kelley movie, "Singing in the Rain". The image of Donald O'Connor and Debbie Reynolds dancing in the rain is indelibly marked on my brain. I wonder how many takes that took to get it right.

What a good friend you have.

New questions.

The names of the main characters in your book were decided by others long ago.

Were the minor character names difficult to develop?

How did you choose them?

Susan Sage link

7/11/2023 04:46:35 pm

The minor character names weren't hard to make up, but trying to give as much credibility to them as the real ones was an occasional challenge. For instance, I had no idea about Catherine's side of the family. Her uncle Gerry was based on a judge I'd met as a girl. There was little info I was able to obtain about the McIntoshes. Knowing a little about Irish-American culture helped. Back to naming the minor characters...I just did a search for common Irish-American names of that particular era.

Mark

7/11/2023 05:59:35 pm

You did well. With little hard information you made it all up and delivered a nice historical fiction story.

I have no doubt it didn't take much research to find the appropriate names. There are many websites devoted to popular names by decade for many different areas. Some going back several hundred years. The oldest sources were church records of birth, marriage and death, and tax records.

New question.

Is this your newest book?

Will you be writing more?

Susan Sage link

7/11/2023 06:49:10 pm

Thanks, Mark. I tried my best to do justice to the fictionalized characters. Learned a lot about writing Historical Fiction in the process. I also know--if I stay with the genre--there's a lot more to be learned.

This is not my latest book. I've been working for the last year or so on a new one. Fiction, of course. It takes place in the near future and is about an older woman's adventures as a houseboat captain down a river preceding a possible civil war.

More after this one? Hard to say. I may want to re-release my first book. I also have a couple books of poetry I'd like to publish.

Mark

7/12/2023 09:52:44 am

Yes, there is a lot to learn. Every genre has it rules and fans have their expectations. Most of these must be met for a book to sell.

Dancing is an interesting mashup to me. It is part biography of your great uncle and part historical fiction. I have already mentioned that hist-fic is my third favorite genre to read. But little more than ten years ago I didn't even know the genre existed.

Your WIP sounds interesting. Set in the future it will likely have some dystopian elements because it takes a lot for a population to rise up and fight against a perceived oppressor or significant injustice. This plot could easily be replanted in pre-Civil War America also. The houseboat is an interesting twist. Is it going to be like a floating motel with lots of tenants? Will she also haul cargo to help make ends meet?

New questions.

Have you done any public speaking?

If so, will you be doing more in the future?

Susan Sage link

7/12/2023 10:09:42 am

I guess Dancing could also be considered Biographical Fiction, right? It’s definitely a mash-up…I wonder if most authors of a particular genre become better writers with each book, or if they fall prey to cookie-cutter writing? If I knew I had several writing decades left, I’d try to stick with one genre, but woefully, I entered the book writing biz a little later in life…

My new book is definitely dystopian. I’ve written another one which I’d mentioned to you five years ago—about a lost dog in a dystopian setting. That one I’ve set aside because I don’t think it’s good enough to be published.

Yikes, I haven’t answered your question yet, have I? As a teacher, I spoke in front of classes of students, but that’s not quite the same thing, is it? I did a little public speaking to book clubs after publishing A Mentor and Her Muse. As a somewhat shy person, it doesn’t come naturally. At this point, I don’t know if I’ll do any more of it…I know authors are encouraged to, but…

Mark

7/12/2023 12:20:22 pm

Biographical fiction is another good category.

When I get the chance to read a series, I can usually see progression in the skill of the writer and growth in the characters from book to book. That deepens my reading pleasure and I feel more connected to the characters, as a reader. I do enjoy a good series and I appreciate why many readers want to read everything a favorite author has published. Writing a lot of books is a good path to success.

Cookie-cutter writing would get boring for me as a reader, fortunately, I have not run into that in the recent past.

Public speaking is one of the top fears that most Americans have. Speaking to a bunch of people does bring a shiver. But there is a secret to public speaking that I discovered many years ago. I have a stammering issue when I get nervous and try to talk though you would barely notice it now. Surprisingly, I enjoy speaking to people in groups of any size now under one condition. That condition is that I talk about something I am expert about.

Do I get nervous and excited? Yes, I truly do but I transform that nervous energy into personal excitement and that helps me to bring more passion into my talk. People love listening to a passionate speaker. So, who knows more about a book than the author? No one! An author is an expert about their book. Most peop0le love hearing the inside scoop about a book or whatever. The audience is there by choice, they want to hear what the expert has to say.

I hope you seek more opportunities to speak about your books because you will sell more books.

New questions.

Have you entered any writing contests?

Have you won awards of any kind for your writing?

Susan Sage link

7/12/2023 12:42:11 pm

That's an astute observation about authors getting better and better with each book they write in a given genre...I guess it's all about honing the craft, right? And it only makes sense that authors would further develop a deeper understanding of their own characters and get all the better at portraying them. I had that experience reading a favorite Fantasy author's trilogy. I didn't mean to imply that authors of series books were cookie-cutter writers. Not at all! Only my regret that I now don't have more years to write them...

Funny thing about your question about public speaking, as I just received an invitation to speak to a group this fall about my books and author experiences! They're a group of retired women professionals in my area. I'm looking forward to it! Your words about doing well when we're speaking passionately about what we know about are true ones, Mark! I've had that experience myself. Just wish I were a tad more polished, but I know I can muster the courage it takes to do it. Thanks for your words of wisdom on the topic!!

I've won a couple of small writing awards. The first one was for a group of poems when I was an undergraduate (the Tompkin's Award at Wayne State University). Another was an honorable book award from TCK publishing for A Mentor & Her Muse. A couple small magazine 'best story' awards, but I can't recall the magazines, as it was some time ago. I should enter more contests, but the costs add up pretty quickly, so I've always been a bit of a skeptic and have refrained from doing so.

Mark

7/12/2023 03:19:43 pm

I am glad you are embracing public speaking opportunities and you will do well when you speak this fall because you are the expert. The more you speak, the more polish you will find. Like writing a series of books. You will have a good time.

Congratulations on winning those awards! Mentor is a phenomenal book!

You are right to be wary of some contests. I have recommended to writers that writing contests, especially those that provide feedback from the judges, can help a writer improve their writing skills. I do have a warning, there are a lot of shady contests out there. Some want to extract as much as they can from your wallet, others want to steal your intellectual property. Here is a copy-and-paste link about those things: Beware Bogus Writing Contests! Look for These 8 Red Flags. https://annerallen.com/2019/05/beware-bogus-writing-contests. You can also use the search box below to find the link. There are other blogs I have links for on my Highly Regarded Blogs page. Anne is one of my favorite bloggers.

New questions.

I noticed that your book is in Kindle Unlimited. How is that working out for you?

How many books have you put in KU?

Susan Sage link

7/12/2023 03:37:59 pm

Thanks for your warning about the shady contests out there. I appreciate your link to the article, too. I'll be sure to check out the blogs you also mentioned with links on your site.

My new book is on Kindle Unlimited. I'm hoping, as I'm relatively unknown, this will help grow my readership. This is my only book on KU. If it doesn't sell well there, I'll 'go wide' after a few months--or whenever I'm able to. I've heard this is something that many authors do in my position.

Mark

7/12/2023 06:05:35 pm

I do have a lot of blog links on my website for authors of all stripes and experience. There are blogs about writing, the business side of writing and everything in between.

I hope Kindle Unlimited works for you. Some authors have done quite well, they usually have quite a few books available. It used to be that Amazon required an exclusive contract to put a book on KU. Your book is available on other non-Amazon platforms, perhaps they have loosened that requirement. I think it's wise to not have all of your eggs in one basket.

New questions.

Have you ever gone through the query process?

Were you seeking an agent or submitting directly to publishers and why did you choose that path?

Susan Sage link

7/12/2023 06:19:11 pm

I do believe Amazon has loosened the requirement, and yes, my book is available from all major distributors. Since it’s POD, there are relatively few books lying around! I do a lot of local author events, so the ones I’ve procured will hopefully find a home.

So the query process. That’s how I found my indie company. Beforehand, I did a small search for an agent, but during the worst of the pandemic, I knew it would be a long shot. I’d queried only a handful of other small companies directly before I landed the one that accepted my book. While I didn’t receive royalties or some of the perks of traditional publishing, I didn’t have to pay anything. I’ve received an author discount for purchasing my own books, but I wasn’t obligated to buy it. Have I paid for promotional opportunities? You bet!! That adds up to more than I’d budgeted for, but that’s a story for another day. Lol…

Mark

7/13/2023 08:37:37 am

I am pleasantly surprised that Amazon loosened the exclusive requirements.

That certainly was a longshot! Persistence certainly paid off.

Did your publisher pay you an advance? For many authors an advance is negligible or even nothing. The publisher has many expenses to publish a book and they don't make any money until the book sells. Selling you the book at a discount is nice for you. Many indie publishers require the author to buy hundreds of copies thus making an immediate return on their investment.

Not many publishers do much to promote a book beyond a listing on their website. Promotion and marketing costs money. The publisher already spent a bundle on publishing the book which may or may not have included editing and a cover.

As you have learned, the burden of marketing and promoting a book fall on the author's shoulders. Many authors shy away from those activities because they take away from writing, but authors can't afford to ignore the business side of writing without suffering a hit to their pocketbook. With over a million books published each year any book will drown in the tide without a lot of marketing work. Without any effort put into marketing there is one guarantee, book sales will be few and far between.

One of my favorite blogs is about pursuing the local author angle. How to be a marketing star right where you live. Another copy-and-paste link or search the title in the box below: https://annerallen.com/2019/08/hometown-book-marketing/ I would add a few tips, seek out literature teachers at the high school and college level to share in their class and there might be a club in the school. Local newspapers are a good resource for an interview as well as local cable access. There might also be a broadcast arts curriculum and/or a club at the high school and college level. Have some questions ready to hand the interviewer if they seem uncertain.

If there are tourist destinations, try and place your books with the local author angle. Museums, gift stores, motels, hotels, tourist attractions are all possibilities. Keep a box of books in your trunk. Get a counter-top holder for a few books, paste a picture of the cover on the holder behind the books and put re-ordering information on the back of the holder.

Consider renting a table at a comic convention, county fair, farmer's market or a flea market. Have free swag to hand out such as a bookmark and sell mugs or posters. There are so many ways to be the 'local author' I doubt I have exhausted the list of possibilities.

New questions.

Will you ever query a manuscript again?

Did you seek specific help in formulating your query letters?

Did you use querytracker.net or some other website like that?

Susan Sage link

7/13/2023 08:57:42 am

Thanks for your great suggestions! Some I’m well-familiar with, but others not so much. I’ll be sure to check out the blog you mentioned.

No, I didn’t receive an advance for my book. I am fortunate enough to have landed a publisher who does some author promotion. But you’re absolutely right about the burden of marketing and promoting falling on the author’s shoulders. Many new authors don’t understand the business end of the writing world.

I sure will write a query for the book I’m currently working on. I’ve read a lot of ‘how to’ articles about querying over the years, but I still like to have author friends critique them and offer their advice. I’ve never been a big fan of that sort of writing, but it’s a valuable skill—unless an author self-publishes.

I did use Query Tracker when I was trying to land an agent. I’ve had nibbles from agents in the past, but nothing solid. I rather doubt I’ll query agents in the future. I’ve had much more success querying indie publishers.

Mark

7/13/2023 11:17:53 am

You are so right! There are a lot of blogs written about querying but what works for one author at a given point may not work again because the market is changing constantly as well as agents and traditional publishers. They are taking fewer chances as days go by because their profit margins are so slim. The number of traditional publishers has contracted considerably in the last several decades, we are down to only four or five of the big ones left. None of them can afford to not take on a book that they aren't certain will sell well regardless of their size.

New question.

How do you think your book compares to a book published by a major publisher?

Susan E. Sage link

7/13/2023 03:15:16 pm

That’s a loaded question, Mark! How does my book compare? I guess that’s really up to readers to determine—that is, if I can get it to enough of them. I believe the narrative holds up as well as any traditionally published book. Had I been privy to one of their editors, I’m sure it would be a bit smoother. That being said, I believe my cover’s every bit as slick as one from one of the Big Five!

Mark

7/13/2023 03:22:05 pm

Yes, that is a loaded question. I think it's important to know what is happening in the market and the greater publishing world.

There is always room for improvement and polish in a book, though some use the excuse of one more edit to avoid putting their book into the marketplace and face it not performing as well as they hope. You were brave and put out a good book! An above average and engaging story with a wonderful cover.

New question.

There are many unethical practices in publishing, which one is the most unbearable in your mind?

Susan Sage link

7/13/2023 03:50:29 pm

I found this to be one of your tougher questions.

I think the most unethical practice in publishing is when the better authors are strung along by literary agents. I’ve heard about this practice happening again and again. Really decent manuscripts get held up by an agent who promises the moon and more to a hopeful author. They develop a trusting relationship with the author, and then a year goes by and then another. It’s not only hopes that get dashed—it’s the author’s entire sense of self-worth. This didn’t happen to me, but it happened to someone very dear to me. Now, no doubt the agent hasn’t done this out of any sense of malice, but false promises have become lousy habits, basically unethical behavior, of I’m sure more than one well-intending agent. It makes my blood boil…I think this is worse than indie authors who complain about all the hidden costs of publishing and promoting. However, I can’t help but think that wealthy authors—who may or may not have any writing ability—can basically buy their way to the bestseller lists…Maybe this is right up there with the agent issue.

Mark

7/13/2023 06:37:30 pm

I am sorry that happened to your friend. It is a horrible situation. The agent was likely trying to find a publisher and couldn't, if we want to be charitable towards the agent. The agent didn't get paid anything and the book didn't get published. It was a loss for all concerned. It is too easy to promise the moon and deliver nothing but sand. I know of no solution for the agent problem. For the author, they have to suck it up and move on. It is a despicable practice without a doubt. That is a good example of the inherent problems with traditional publishing.

New questions.

Is there a book that causes strong emotions to come up no matter how many times you read it?

Do you ever read a book more than once?

If so, which one?

Susan Sage link

7/13/2023 06:53:00 pm

I rarely read books more than once since there are so many wonderful ones out there! But of the ones I have read more than once, I would have to say that 'To Kill a Mockingbird' stirs up strong emotions every time. I've read it maybe three times and each time I've read it, I am again angered by the prejudice and injustice. Yet the ending is as equally satisfying each time I read it.

Do you have a book that does this to you, Mark?

Mark

7/14/2023 06:59:23 am

Growing up on a small farm in a very small town, I had a small personal library that included 2 sets of encyclopedias and a set of condensed classic stories from many ages as well as many novels for children. I did a lot of rereading then. Now, not at all, unless you count the Bible. I am always rereading that.

The 90s were a time of personal growth and I reread one book in particular, "The Father Wound" by Gordon Dalbey. It made my eyes sweat each time I read it.

New question.

What book has changed your mind about any particular topic?

Susan Sage link

7/14/2023 08:07:02 am

That’s great about how the 90s were a time of personal growth for you! Unlike you, I grew up in a city with a family of readers. An interesting question…I read primarily fiction, but not always. I don’t think fiction has ever changed my mind about anything—but it has led me to understand people and be a little more insightful than I would have been otherwise. Back in the 90s, I too, went through a time of personal growth. Some family members accused me of being New Age-y (particularly my daughter). Wayne Dyer—whom I initially didn’t think much of—became a favorite and changed my mind about certain spiritual concepts.

Mark

7/14/2023 10:05:38 am

All I recall about Wayne Dyer is that he is a motivational speaker.

Like you, reading fiction has helped me to understand other people better and I am better for it.

New questions.

Did you have a favorite book as a child?

Which of your books is your favorite, and why?

Susan Sage link

7/14/2023 10:25:18 am

Hard to know if I had a favorite book as a child, as I loved so many! Among the ones I cherished he most: All the 'Little House' books, 'Black Beauty,' 'The Swiss Family Robinson,' and 'Little Women.' What was your favorite one? It's hard to narrow it down...

As far as a favorite among my own books? Hmm...I think it's always the one I'm working on at the present time. I certainly enjoyed braiding fact and fiction in my latest published novel, 'Dancing in the Ring,' so I guess you could say I'm partial toward that one, too.

Mark

7/14/2023 12:28:20 pm

I fondly recall a series called, "The Happy Hollisters". They were several kids who solved various mysteries in their neighborhood. It seemed like each book arrived once a month or so. I must have had at least a dozen of the volumes. They provided me many hours of reading and rereading pleasure.

How could you not choose Dancing as a favorite because it involves members of your family.

New questions.

If you could ask every person, who has read one of your books, only one question what would you ask them?

Susan Sage link

7/14/2023 03:13:20 pm

Never heard of the 'Happy Hollisters,' but glad to hear you enjoyed that series, Mark.

You're right--I guess I would have to choose Dancing in the Ring as my favorite for the very reason you stated.

The one question I would like to ask all readers of my latest book--if I could: Were you able to tell which characters were based on actual people and which ones were fictitious (or a blend of real and made up ones)?

Mark

7/14/2023 05:28:18 pm

That is a pretty good question. I think many, if not most, would say they really couldn't tell. I loved the alternating first person point of view, by the way. Catherine's chapters were every bit as good as Bob's chapters. Some darn good writing.

New question.

How do you handle bad reviews?

Susan Sage link

7/14/2023 06:19:40 pm

Oh, thanks SO much!! I'm glad to know that you think many couldn't tell! That's one of the main things I was striving to do, and I imagine are most Historical Fiction authors. Nice to know you thought I was even-handed with the Catherine and Bob chapters, as that was another goal.At first I was going to have it just be in her voice, but I wanted to show the story from his perspective, too.

I well recall my first bad review with 'A Mentor and Her muse.' There were two, but the first one hurt me to the quick. My skin has toughened up some, though though negative ones are still upsetting. Keeping fingers crossed with 'Dancing,' but I'm sure it will offend a few readers. I recently read that bad reviews make people curious and it winds up help with book sales! Hard to believe, but there could be some truth to this. Maybe the worst response to a book is no response, you know? A simple and horrific 'meh'!

Mark

7/14/2023 07:26:03 pm

Using the alternating POV was a very good idea. I related to a lot of Bob's thoughts and understood his perspective.

Many authors struggle with negative reviews. There are two kinds of negative reviews, the first kind usually offer something to learn from. The second are merely trolls trying to get under the author's skin. The second kind are to be ignored.

I have told authors for a long time that a bad review or two merely proves the validity of the good reviews, that they are not products of family or your mom's bridge club. I never considered that a bad review might stimulate interest.

New question.

Does writing have a spiritual or healing component for you, does it energize you or make you feel tired?

Susan Sage link

7/14/2023 07:49:56 pm

Great question! Thanks for making me contemplate this. Writing definitely has a spiritual/healing component for me. I find this to be the case especially when I’m writing poetry. I think I initially began writing as a young teenager because I felt a huge need to figure out my feelings—to find the right words for them. When I do, I’ll experience a lovely sense of calm, of healing maybe. That a-ha moment, you know?

Writing fiction—at least the initial first draft—usually energizes me. Since I write in the mornings, I’m usually feeling linguistically nimble (if that makes sense) after my second cup of coffee. I rarely write more than a few pages in one sitting, since that gust of the creative spirit, doesn’t last real long—never as long as I wish it would. The only time I feel tired when I’m writing is after revising a long time. At times, I’ll get stumped by a single sentence or a paragraph. The mental wrestling can really wear me out!

Mark

7/15/2023 08:12:55 am

Many authors have responded in a similar fashion. A good writing session produces a feeling of satisfaction for many. We can blame endorphins, I think.

Teenage feelings and angst were something that I tried to avoid by reading a good book. That merely delayed the inevitable.

I love that phrase, linguistically nimble, it makes a lot of sense to me. I am also not surprised you get your best writing accomplished in the morning.

I understand your feelings about editing your work, every author struggles with that. It can be discouraging when you have gone over your manuscript dozens of times and still find errors. Fresh eyes make a big difference.

New question.

Since a copyright in America lasts for 75 years after the author's passing, do you have a plan for all of your books in your estate?

Susan Sage link

7/15/2023 08:19:48 am

Thanks for your thoughtful responses to my responses. You seem to have a lot of empathy for writers, Mark.

No, I don't have a plan for all my books in my estate. My guess is that I should, right? Any tips you can throw my way? I'm all ears!

Mark

7/15/2023 01:11:23 pm

I have great respect for writers and their creative process. You are welcome.

Yes, you should seek legal counsel and include a plan for your books in your estate planning. You are going to want a lawyer with experience in the intellectual property and entertainment field. I have a link on my Highly Regarded Blogs page but I couldn't find it. I have links to a lot of blogs about legal issues for authors. That page is very long.

New question

Why is it important for writers to tap into the emotions of the characters?

Susan Sage link

7/15/2023 03:25:58 pm

I'll definitely check out your links to blogs about legal issues. Thanks for your info about talking to a lawyer.

I believe it's important to tap into the emotions of their characters because it's one of the main ways to breathe life into them! If an author doesn't try to perceive the world through their characters' eyes, then the characters are flat and little more than stereotypes. As a reader, I can always tell authors who are good at doing this from ones who aren't. I think it's important to do this with minor characters, too, even if they aren't fleshed out as well on the pages. Something every author needs to keep in mind, for sure!!

Mark

7/15/2023 05:37:45 pm

You are welcome. I have tried to make my website a source of good information for authors.

I think you nailed that one on the head. If characters don't come across as resembling living and breathing people, they will seem to be flat. And flat is boring, lack of depth is boring. Character bibles are a useful tool for authors. By creating a description of each character, their wants, needs, hopes and desires those same characters are well on their way to being real for the readers. Some authors describe physical characteristics and habits, good and bad. Some make drawings or search out pictures that resemble the character the author has in mind.

Rick Hall is a client and has contributed several guest blogs about writing. In one of the guest posts Rick posted a link to a website he created to help authors with character development. It is very interesting. Here is the copy-and-paste link or use the search box below. https://www.wordrefiner.com/guest-blogs/character-creation

New questions.

You mentioned earlier that you did NaNoWriMo, National November Writing Month. The goal is to write a minimum of 50,000 words of a first draft novel.

Will you do it again?

What kind of preparation do you do before it starts?

Susan Sage link

7/15/2023 06:16:45 pm

I would do NaNoWriMo again if I came down with a particularly bad bout of Writer's Block. I think it's especially useful for authors in the early stages of their writing careers. I know a seasoned author who did NaNo in June. She said the first two weeks were especially useful. I think it's incredibly important to gag the inner critic, as they're such a task-master. That being said, drivel is drivel...

Mark

7/15/2023 07:12:34 pm

Yes, I have heard that they offer several events during the year including a summer camp. It does seem like a lot of useful fun.

Silencing the inner critic is very important for not just writers but everyone. We all are beset by that inner voice that tries to degrade us and all of our efforts. I advise writers and that guy in the mirror to ignore the inner liar. Keep calm and carry on.

That first draft is always a steaming pile of drivel. If you don't extract the first draft from your head the book will never be written. The blank page cannot be edited. Another good reason to stuff the inner liar into a closet while writing the first draft. Without editing drivel remains drivel.

New questions.

Are you an under-writer or an over-writer?

When the first draft is done, do you need to add more to flesh it out or do you have to cut material because there is too much?

Susan Sage link

7/15/2023 07:19:33 pm

I used to be an over-writer and now I'm an under-writer. Maybe when I was younger my inner critic was less vocal and I trusted the thought process more than I do now. I could easily write a chapter in one sitting. Not so now. Truth be told though, I prefer to under-write and then to flesh out the skeleton--I find it easier than to try to lose the ungainly weight of fleshy paragraphs. Does this make sense? My early draft writing looks more like extended outlines. Also, I can more readily see what's working and what's not working. At least this is true for me with the present book I'm trying to write.

Mark

7/16/2023 07:10:26 am

We both love words and writing florid and ornate phrases would come easy as a new writer, it seems to me. Acknowledging the times we live in, your writing style and the writing style of most authors has become more compact. The experts say, whoever they are, that readers want fast-paced action and minimal descriptions so they can finish a book quickly and start the next one. And as a reader, I find I like doing that exact same thing.

That makes a lot of sense to me. If I was a writer, I think it would be easier to expand a section rather than slim it down.

New questions.

Have you ever used yourself as a starting point for a character in a story?

Would family or friends recognize you in the story if you hadn't warned them in advance?

Susan Sage link

7/16/2023 08:08:37 am

I'm glad you can see where I'm coming from with my writing style. Also, my roots are in writing poetry, so my desire to be concise stems from that--although I'm sure today I'd cringe looking back at my flowery Juvenalia!

I've written many short stories over the years. I'm sure more than once I've at least made a guest star appearance, but I must say within the last few years I usually reserve overtly inserting myself in my fiction and am 'on stage' only in my non-fiction pieces. I guess a more veiled version of me is present in many of my short stories or prose poems. Oh, I'm sure family and friends would have no problem seeing me in them, too! But I'm just not that interesting a subject, so I've often focused on family or friends.I've tried my best to disguise them, as I would feel bad if I hurt anyone's feelings. However, I've only published a few short stories, and tend not to share them.

Mark

7/16/2023 11:16:20 am

Poetry is special because every word has to earn its place on the page, there is no room for clouded or muddy thinking. The same rule is frequently promulgated towards novels but there is room for extra words in prose, indeed they are necessary most of the time to a limit. Finding the limit, establishing the proper balance, makes a big difference between an okay story and a marvelous story.

I confess that I seldom pick up a book of poetry, there are too many new books to read. Yet, when I do read poetry, I find I am impacted in surprising ways.

You are wise to disguise a character, so the original person doesn't recognize the imitation. It doesn't always end well.

New question.

What do you do to flesh out the characters for your stories?

Susan Sage link

7/16/2023 11:31:49 am

It's amazing how powerfully poetry can impact us, even if we don' t read it on a daily basis!

To answer your question about fleshing out characters: I first need to have a pretty clear visual in mind (made up or taken from 'real' life). Then I jot down personality traits, their likes and dislikes, where they live, and basically everything possible about their personal lives. Lately, I'll include their pet phrases or habits, as well. Even if the particulars don't get written into the narrative, as the author, the information is incredibly important when writing a novel. I've tried to make it up on the fly, while I'm writing a chapter, and it just doesn't work for me.

Mark

7/16/2023 01:49:43 pm

That is a good plan and great execution. I can tell it really makes the characters come alive for you and your readers. I can testify how well it worked for me as a reader. I also recall a similar feeling when I read "A Mentor and Her Muse". Five years after the fact, I recall how lifelike your characters were. That is good writing.

New question.

Which is more fun to write, the protagonist or the antagonist, and why?

Susan Sage link

7/16/2023 02:58:37 pm

Thank for your kind words about my characters, Mark!

Another perplexing--but ever so interesting question from the Word Refiner! I truly can't say which is more fun...As I like to make my characters as credible as possible, I try to write about protagonists who aren't all good, as well as antagonists who aren't simply bad or evil. Characters being reflective of the good and evil duality that exists in all people. That being said, my favorite kinds of characters to write about are the quirky ones, the outsiders--those who are just outside of being 'normal.' I haven't "killed" any of "my little darlings," yet--maybe I'd become a better writer if I were to do so. Hmm...

Mark

7/16/2023 05:26:51 pm

You are very welcome, Susan.

Many authors are on the same path as you striving to make all of the characters as real as they can. The intentional design of quirkiness is smart as we all have quirks and idiosyncrasies that contribute to our individuality. Each of us are unique just like every other person on the planet.

Killing one of your darlings might help keep the others in line, if they get too uppity. ;-)

New questions.

Which is more important to a story pace or flow?

How do you control it?

Susan Sage link

7/16/2023 06:29:44 pm

I would say that pace determines the flow. If pacing is off, then so to is the flow...I guess the main way to control it is for the author to be hyper-aware of sentence and paragraph structure. If sentences lope along slowly, it's going to affect the flow, similar to going off on a side-bar or tangent...Both contribute to mood and writing style, I should think.I feel like I intuitively know how to control pace and flow, but not something I'm super conscious about when writing. Good food for thought, Mark!

Mark

7/17/2023 09:05:43 am

Right you are. An author does need to be cognizant of the pace at all times. Action needs short words and choppy sentences if a fast pace is required. Sections that might allow the reader to recover from a lengthy action sequence necessitate a slower pace with longer sentences. Readers do need a period of recovery from intense, lengthy action.

I think you do have an innate sense of pace and flow, I don't recall running into any issues regarding that when reading your book.

New questions.

What is your writing routine when you sit down to write?

Do you write in a straight line or do you write whatever the muse provides for you at a given moment?

Susan Sage link

7/17/2023 09:35:11 am

I'm glad you think I have an innate sense of pace and flow. If I do, it's only because I've read a lot over the years.

So my writing routine...I write in the mornings in my office. When beginning a new work, I try to write from 8:00 - 10:30. If it's not going smoothly, I'll take several mini-breaks. If I'm revising, I'll always take small breaks so I can return to the page a little refreshed. (Revising or editing often spills over into the afternoon.)Those who know me well, know not to call me in the morning. I can't seem to get this message through to my two cats (especially my older feline, Lola).

And no, I rarely write in a straight line, though I do work from notes and somewhat of an outline. Ahh, the muse...I sure wish she'd visit more in the mornings than in the middle of the night! I try my best to recall her instructions the next day, but there have been countless times, I've lost them. Sigh.

Mark

7/17/2023 11:34:04 am

Refreshing the brain and eyes is important, especially when editing. I take frequent breaks also and play games on my phone for a few minutes.

Self-editing can be an onerous task for many writers because typos and spelling errors keep popping up. One of the best ways to freshen up your brain is to put the book away for several months. Honestly, few writers can afford to do that. Here are some ways to trick your brain into not recognizing what you are reading is old material. Change the font size, style and color, change the background color, switch to landscape mode instead of portrait. If you do all of your editing offscreen, then print it out using the aforementioned changes. Read your manuscript aloud, have the computer read it to you. Start at the end and read it backwards, one paragraph at a time. Putting the manuscript away for a few weeks or a couple of months works well also, especially if you work on a different project.

I have heard from more than one author about the apparent lack of concern for timing from the muse. One author told me her muse would show up at 2:30 in the morning and she could never recall what was imparted. Now, she keeps a pad of paper and pen on the nightstand. Many mornings she can even read her notes. Another author was regularly visited by her muse while she was in the shower and lamented the loss of so many wonderful ideas. I suggested she get a pad of waterproof paper and a Fischer Space pen so she could take notes in the shower. She was much happier to learn of that option.

New question.

Now that your book is published, is there anything about it you would like to change?

Susan Sage link

7/17/2023 01:01:51 pm

Thanks for some more great suggestions regarding self-editing. I'd never heard of changing the font size of the manuscript, but it makes total sense!

If I could wave a magic wand and go back to pre-publishing days of DANCING IN THE RING, I would add a Table of Contents and hire a proofreader (most of have been caught and corrected). Regarding the content of the book--no, I'd keep that exactly the same.

Mark

7/17/2023 03:10:25 pm

If you can fool your brain into thinking it's seeing new material the mistakes will be easy to find. Proofreading is the last stop before publishing.

I like a TOC in a book I also like chapter titles they give a hint about what is to come.

Last question.

What do you do to launch a new book when it is first published?

Susan Sage link

7/17/2023 03:33:13 pm

I’m sad this is my last question from you, Mark, as I’ve so enjoyed your questions and format!

Social media really helps authors with launches. I recall my first book being published before many authors knew how to utilize the Internet. Back then, we could do little besides have a bookstore host a launch, as well as a small announcement in local newspapers. Now, things have changed, so like most authors, I spend much time on a few social media platforms, both announcing the new book myself, as well as using a couple promoters. I’ve thought about paying for a blog tour, but haven’t yet done so. Besides this, I also do in-person book signings for the first few months after the release. Also, I’d like to do a podcasts this time around.

You have been so incredibly generous with your writing tips. Thanks so much! But I do have a final question for you, Mark. From all your author interviews, what would you say the best way is for authors to land reviews? I truly believe that’s one of the biggest reasons some authors succeed in sales, but others do not.

Mark

7/17/2023 04:15:49 pm

You have made my day, Susan. I am happy to have shared information you have found useful.

Things have changed so much with the ubiquity of the internet and Amazon allowing everyone to publish a book. You are doing everything right as far as I know. Here is another copy-and-paste link about book blog tours:
Do This, Not That – Blog Tours https://www.thebookdesigner.com/2020/06/do-this-not-that-blog-tours I hope this information helps. Keep in mind this blog was written 3 years ago.

On my Twitter page I have many lists of people on Twitter who provide different services to authors, reviewers, promoters and book blog tours. Vet them carefully as I have not used their services.

I wish I had a better answer for your question but so many don't leave a review after reading a book and you can only cajole them so far.

You have been a fabulous guest and I have enjoyed our chat so much. I have another promotion starting tomorrow so this one must come to an end. Thanks for being on the Word Refiner channel.

Until next time keep on writing.

Susan Sage link

7/17/2023 04:34:02 pm

And, Mark, you have been a fabulous interviewer! It's been fun for me to see how your website and links have so greatly expanded in the past few years. Also, many thanks for all the Tweets!! I so enjoyed seeing your former mascot--who still lives on in spirit--in many of them. You bring a humanity to a sometimes impersonal world. I very much appreciate your food-for-thought questions, your insights, and compassion for authors.

Susan Sage link

1/29/2024 08:33:38 am

Hi, Mark,

Looking forward to the second part of the interview! I would suggest my website, but I don't think you can post directly on the site.

Mark

1/29/2024 08:42:19 am

Welcome back to the Word Refiner channel, Susan. It's good to resume our conversation.

First question.

What else are you writing these days?

Susan Sage link

1/29/2024 08:50:23 am

Thanks for asking, Mark! I've been working on a new novel called 'Silver Lady: Travels Along the River Road.' It's currently with my editor.

Susan Sage link

1/29/2024 09:08:26 am

My newest book will hopefully be published this December.

Mark

1/29/2024 12:47:56 pm

Tell us a little bit about this book. Also, you have another book about a road trip, A Mentor and Her Muse. I reviewed that previously. Tell us a little bit about that one also.

Susan Sage link

1/29/2024 01:06:09 pm

Thanks for asking about both books, Mark. My newest one, SILVER LADY, takes place in the near future (2033). Cassie, an older woman, takes on the job as houseboat captain with a small crew. They travel down a mighty river which becomes increasingly dreamlike with each passing day. Civil War has become increasingly likely, but those aboard the Silver Lady have other concerns--like pirates and words vanishing from pages. It's best described as Magical Realism/Fantasy.

My earlier novel, A MENTOR AND HER MUSE, is about a road trip taken by a woman with her teenage friend. Curiously, both novels involve travel. However, this is a more psychological and realistic book than my latest one.

Mark

1/29/2024 04:49:53 pm

Magical realism is an interesting sub-genre of fantasy. Your new book, Silver Lady, sounds like it would be quite pleasurable to read. Your fans have something to look forward to.

New question.

You have 50 reviews for Dancing on Amazon and 36 on Goodreads in a little more than six months.

What kind of marketing has worked the best and the least for you for this book?

Susan Sage link

1/30/2024 08:05:39 am

Thanks, Mark. I've always been a fan of Magical Realism.

Since well before publication, I've done a lot of marketing for 'Dancing in the Ring.' My marketing plan has been to vary my promotional efforts as much as possible. While I don't always know what has worked the best, so far, I have learned that my pre-release Goodreads Giveaway resulted in a few reviews. Also, networking with other authors and doing 'author swaps' has been helpful. I'd like to think that book reviews have helped get my book into the hands of readers, but I really don't know for sure. I took part in a virtual book tour last fall that helped get more followers on social media. Interviews like doing this one have a lot of value, too, Mark! I think they're great way of getting exposure for indie authors. My worst promotional experience has been in not following through with doing a newsletter. I know some authors swear by them, but I guess I've always been somewhat unsure of investing much time and energy into having one. I have an interview coming up with three other authors on a Facebook platform this week--my first one. Maybe I've let the ball drop a little by not having done more of this sort of thing. Sometimes it comes down to not wanting to fritter too much time away from writing, you know?

Mark

1/30/2024 11:22:30 am

Striking the balance between working your business, as an author, and writing more for your fans is always a challenge. I recommend to authors they set aside an hour or two every week to work on the marketing side of their business.

A newsletter can boost sales and provide an important feeling of authenticity for visitors and subscribers alike. Like nearly every other marketing venture it takes time to build a fan base (subscribers). You already have a key component for your marketing anchor, your website. You also have a separate blog, it might be to your benefit to combine your blog and website. If you haven't already subscribe to the newsletters of several successful authors and learn how they do it.

New question.

Speaking of marketing, why did you pick me to help promote your books?

Susan Sage link

1/30/2024 11:38:29 am

Thanks, for your helpful info! I'm sure I've easily put in a couple hours a week with my marketing. At one point, I'd been thinking about attaching a blog to my website, but I'd forgotten about it, so thanks for the reminder! I recently began to post articles on Medium, and have been trying to build-up my followers there, too.

I originally chose you to help out with marketing because you know how to combine an engaging style with professionalism, Mark. While I don't spend the time on Twitter that I once did, I've always enjoyed your author interviews because they are more in-depth than others. Also, your author resources are wonderful!

Mark

1/30/2024 01:23:29 pm

You are welcome.

There are a lot of different platforms available to post on. Reddit and Substack have been around for quite a while.

Thank you for the kind words. As far as I know, my interview format is unique, I haven't seen it anywhere else. I have tried to provide a useful resource for authors.

New question.

Why did you choose Medium to expand your reach over other platforms?

Susan Sage link

1/30/2024 03:07:37 pm

I chose Medium because I found it a little more user-friendly, especially for those of us who aren't techies. I've read many articles on Substack and find it more appealing on other levels, but I felt it to be a little more challenging. Also, Medium has a lot of publishing opportunities for short short fiction and poetry. Any words of advice for me about either of these platforms?

Mark

1/30/2024 03:48:04 pm

That sounds like a good reason to me. I struggle with many aspects of technology also.

I am sorry to say I have no experience with any of these platforms. Here is a copy-and-paste link that might be useful for you because not all platforms are created equal. The Predatory Contracts of Serial Reading/Writing Apps https://writerunboxed.com/2022/06/24/reading-between-the-lines-the-predatory-contracts-of-serial-reading-writing-apps You can also hit the search box below.

New question.

How do you think your book relates to the world we live in today?

Susan Sage link

1/30/2024 04:01:37 pm

Thanks for the link!

In the early 1920s, our country was just coming out of the ravages of the 1918 flu epidemic. It was a creative and lively time and the economy was booming. Some might compare it to our times--a century later! Let's hope the bottom doesn't fall out like it did at the end of the 1920s! Also, my book is set in Detroit. There were problems with racism, which still exists today. Instead of alcohol issues related to Prohibition, there is definitely a drug problem. Curiously, some parallels sure do seem to exist!

Mark

1/31/2024 07:39:11 am

Interesting parallels. Many things have changed, and many haven't or are repeating. This book reflected the energy of the 1920s quite well.

New question.

What is the one thing you hope readers will remember from your book?

Susan Sage link

1/31/2024 08:12:02 am

Thanks, Mark.

I guess the one thing I hope readers will remember is that despite their self-destructive tendencies, both Catherine and Bob were intelligent and compassionate people who were earnest and sincere in their attempts to right-the-wrongs in 1920s Detroit.

Mark

1/31/2024 10:03:47 am

Bob and Catherine are a lot like most of us. We can be our own worst enemy and we mean well.

New question.

Do you have a classical author or poet you admire?

Susan Sage link

1/31/2024 11:12:22 am

I agree with you completely, Mark! Lately, I've had several discussions with other authors about how we're also our own worst critics. Something tells me that this might be true of people, in general, as well.

So classical poet or author whom I admire...I've always loved John Donne's poetry, though I haven't read him in a few years. I guess--sadly--I've been reading more contemporary poets and authors these days. If you fast forward a century or so, there are several authors I enjoy, including Virginia Woolf, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky...

Mark

1/31/2024 02:49:31 pm

I have a different name for that inner critic. I call it the inner liar because it seems bent on reducing us to a puddle of tears or a blog of ineffective efforts. It seems to be the opposite of self-preservation. I tell myself and others, ignore the inner liar.

I have not read a lot of poetry but it always surprises me! The feelings that well up within me are unexpected and I enjoy the result. I seem to be highly susceptible to poetic manipulation. Mind you, I am not complaining merely observing.

New question.

What popular modern authors have influenced you?

Susan Sage link

1/31/2024 03:13:52 pm

If you don't mind, I think I'm going to adopt your term 'inner liar.' I agree that the nasty things our 'inner critics' say to us are often lies. Lies told to us when we're feeling down and have a case of 'imposter syndrome.'

It's never too late to try to enjoy a new form of literature! There are so many different kinds of poetry, I'm sure you could well find one you'll enjoy! I keep telling myself that once I stop writing novels, I'm going to go back and write poetry, but then I write another book and my first love--poetry--recedes into the background.

I've been influenced by so many popular modern authors, it's hard to name them all. Let's see...Margaret Atwood, John Irving, and Gabriel Garcia Marquez are the ones who pop immediatley to mind. While I haven't read any of their novels recently, I was absolutely dazzled by their imaginative storytelling, as well as their lively characters, complex plots, and credible dialogues. Recently, I've been reading some really good novels by indie authors: Sandra Sperling, Milana Marsenich, Susan Rooke, and Kimber Silver--to name a few of them.

Mark

1/31/2024 07:05:07 pm

You are welcome to use that term.

I have enjoyed almost all of the poetry I have read. I have read at least half a dozen in the last few years, maybe more. I read with a fairly analytical mind and the emotions catch me when I am not prepared.

Sandra Sperling is a client. I have promoted one of her books and proofed another for her. I do enjoy her writing. I think she won an award for her book, The Stash.

New question.

Have you ever been asked for writing help or to mentor a fledgling writer?

Susan Sage link

1/31/2024 07:18:14 pm

Yes, Sandra has one a few awards. I love her writing!

Glad to hear you enjoy reading poetry. It moves me in a way quite unlike reading fiction. I've always dreamed of writing a novel that combined both prose and poetry. I've read YA books that do this, but I'd love to read more of them for adults.

In my earlier incarnation as a teacher and educator, I sponsored an after-school creative writing club. For several years, I worked as an English tutor and assisted students with writing assignments. I haven't been asked to help fledgling writers since I retired, but I would certainly welcome the opportunity!

Mark

1/31/2024 09:07:35 pm

There might be a high school or college writing club in your area that would love to hear from you. Some public libraries allow writing groups to meet in a conference room.

New question.

What software do you use to write and publish your books, and why do you use those?

Susan Sage link

2/1/2024 08:04:05 am

Thanks for your idea about getting in touch with a high school or college writing club! I still have a few connections at the school where I worked, so I'll think about contacting one of the teachers. I've alway considered myself to be fairly good at encouraging others, so I would definitely enjoy helping students again!

I use Microsoft Word to write my manuscripts on. I guess I use it because I'm more familiar with it than other word processing programs. Also, I added ProWriting Aid to assist with grammar issues. It's time-consuming, but has proven helpful.

Mark

2/1/2024 09:57:59 am

We are quite similar in that we like to help people. While I am an introvert in many ways, I am eager to help others and that propelled me into a retail career that lasted almost 20 years. After I switched into construction, I realized that it was a lot like retail. I was helping to solve a problem for a customer.

I hope you put those feelers out and go wide. As a multi-volume author, you have a lot to offer to others interested in writing novels or poetry.

Microsoft Word is used widely around the world. It has been translated into many different languages; it has 18 versions of English from Australian English to Zimbabwean English.

New question.

Are you a plotter, a pantser, or a hybrid, which some call a plantser?

Susan Sage link

2/1/2024 10:38:07 am

While I wouldn't have thought there was a connection between retail and construction, I see your point, Mark. You sure do a lot to help authors! While I'm in a writing group and try my best to assist the other authors, it's a small group, and lately I feel the need to connect more with my community.

I hadn't heard of plantser, but I guess that best fits my writing style. I was definitely a pantser when I wrote my first book. Now, I write from an outline, though it's far from formal. I also write tons of preliminary notes before writing my first chapter. Still, I enjoy being open to plot changes and character growth while I write, so I'll probably never turn into a plotter. Interesting question!

Mark

2/1/2024 12:36:08 pm

I am glad you are enjoying my questions. I am frequently adding more questions or altering the ones I have.

I think that a lot of writers start out as a pantser because many don't really know how to write a book. There are quite a few who have a degree in writing arts, and they have more understanding about how to build a story into an easy-to-read book.

If I were to write a story, I would be outlining to discover the hidden or less obvious parts of the tale. I have learned so much from authors that I know I have to stay flexible and listen to the characters. Using an outline makes the most sense to me. So far, the world is safe because I do not have a story begging to be told inside of me.

New question.

How do you keep track of all the characters and events in your books?

Susan Sage link

2/1/2024 01:29:20 pm

Sounds like you could well have a story needing to be told! I think we all do. I agree with your comments about outlining.

After finishing an early draft I sort of 'unbraid' it by looking at each character's parts in the novel--from descriptions of them to their dialogues--pretty much every time I've mentioned them. I catch a lot of issues this way. Sometimes I'll find a given character repeating themselves or doing something out of character. I'll go back at this point and make a fair number of changes--usually in the form of deletions. Does this make sense? I'll also decide whether I've fleshed out one of the characters enough by doing this.

Mark

2/1/2024 03:38:43 pm

Looking at the totality of a character's involvement in the story is a good filter. That makes a lot of sense to me. Other filters could include settings and plot pivot points. I would also suggest checking dialogue tags and action beats because I see those misused or mis-punctuated many times.

New questions.

Who was the easiest character to write in this book?

Who was the hardest character to write in this book?

Susan Sage link

2/1/2024 03:58:23 pm

Good suggestions, Mark! Thanks.

The easiest character to write about was Bob because I'd heard so much about him when I was growing up. His wife, Catherine, was more difficult because I really knew very little about her except the basic facts. Bob's side is more historically accurate because I had more information about him. I pretty much fabricated Catherine's side. I've asked a few readers if they could tell and was REALLY happy to hear that all the characters seemed equally credible.

Mark

2/1/2024 06:48:21 pm

That is a good explanation. It makes a lot of sense. I also think you did a good job of bringing Catherine to life. She was a real person and you had very little concrete information to go on.

New question.

How much research did you do to write the story of Bob and Catherine?

Susan Sage link

2/1/2024 07:12:08 pm

I guess I did a fair amount of research to write their story. There was only a little paper trail in the family photo albums and records. My late father left a short memoir about his father's side of the family which proved to be helpful. Most of my research about Detroit, I did online and through a few books I'd located about Detroit in the 1920s and 30s. I was amazed at the number of online photos and videos I was able to find. I also spent a little time in downtown Detroit visiting places that I wrote about like the neighborhood of Corktown, the Old Recorder's Court Building, as well as a couple churches. While this has been the only Historical Fiction book I've written, I can see how enjoyable it must be to exclusively write in this genre.

Mark

2/1/2024 08:24:44 pm

Science fiction is my top favorite genre followed closely by fantasy. It has taken several years to settle on historical fiction as my third favorite genre to read. Cozy murders are fourth.

That is wonderful that you were able to visit those neighborhoods, some authors can only resort to Google earth street view and many their imagination alone.

New questions.

Do you think you will write another hist-fic story?

Have you ever had the experience of the story swerving in a different direction than planned, as if a character was driving it?

Susan Sage link

2/2/2024 08:26:19 am

If I was ten years younger, I'd definitely think about writing another hist-fic story. Maybe I should never-say-never, but I think I'll stick with my favorite genre. As you probably kiow, I've always gravitated mostly toward Magic Realism/Fantasy. My latest book, which will be out next December, falls best under that genre.

I've always been envious of authors who talk about 'story swerving,' but I finally got to experience it in my latest book. While the book is written in first-person, there are several others who chime in now-and-then. While the narrator is somewhat like me, the other five characters are all very different, both from me and each other. I felt like I was taking dictation! It was great fun writing in their voices.

Mark

2/2/2024 10:52:13 am

I do love first person POV. It is so intimate when done correctly. I am looking forward to your next book.

That does sound like you are having fun! Five distinct voices will make the story easy to follow.

New question.

I know there are many ways to build the outline. Do you do it all on the computer or do you get analog in the beginning, perhaps with sticky notes or note cards?

Susan Sage link

2/2/2024 12:36:56 pm

I'm glad to hear that you're looking forward to my next book!!

I definitely 'get analog' when I begin a new book. While I don't have a predictable way of outlining, I usually jot notes in a spiral notebook (it has to be brand new--go figure...) At some point, I'll wind up typing my notes up. I usually do this when I'm feeling stuck or unsure of what to do next before beginning the first chapter, or a new one. Does this sound like a common strategy?

Mark

2/2/2024 03:10:55 pm

Some writers collect pens, others collect notebooks. Many authors start in a similar analog fashion. Your method sounds good to me.

New questions.

Do you have a defined space for writing at home, or do you prefer to write in a coffee-shop?

Do you listen to music or have the TV on when writing, or do you need quiet?

Susan Sage link

2/2/2024 05:02:39 pm

I have an office in my home. It's really the only place I can write. While I love my local coffee-shop, I would find it way too distracting to write there. I always have classical music playing on my radio while I write. The volume has to be really quiet though, or even it would distract me. I'd like to talk to writers who are able to work with a TV on in the background. OMG, that would completely kill my inner voice! That being said, I'm sure there are many who do their best writing with background noise. I suffer from tinnitus and sometimes it's an issue, especially at niht.

Mark

2/2/2024 07:35:07 pm

Some people need something to concentrate against. That is what I think.

I loved reading as a boy and wanted to read all of the time. I learned to read in the car and on a bus. After getting bad headaches a few times, I kept reading and the headaches never came back. I learned to block all external noise out.

Tinnitus is tough, it can be quite debilitating in extreme cases. My wife has Meniere's and tinnitus is one of four factors of that disease.

New question.

Action, dialogue, or narration; which is easiest to write?

Susan Sage link

2/3/2024 08:08:44 am

Your wife has my sympathies! And that's wonderful that you've always been a reader, too. My life wouldn't be a satisfying one without my book-friends!

Narration and dialogue both come a little easier for me than action. Maybe it's due to my background in writing poetry, but moving my character through space and time have sometimes posed a problem. I try to keep my action sequences as simple as possible.I don't enjoy being overly-descriptive either--despite my background in poetry. I admire those authors who make it all look effortless, even though we know it's not!

Mark

2/3/2024 10:35:29 am

We know that easy reading only comes about through rigorous editing and rewriting. Many authors make action scenes seem natural. I think part of it is pacing, varying sentence lengths depending upon action intensity. High-stakes action needs short sentences that are easy to grasp. The story moves quickly to some kind of conclusion for that scene.

Some new authors fall into a trap that really bogs their story down. They use a lot of detail to describe very common actions. I get bored with the story quickly in that situation. Actions and events that are part of everyday life for readers are best mentioned in the simplest of terms. I think this invites the readers to fill in the gaps with their own life experiences and ties them to the story in a deeper fashion.

One of the things about poetry that astonishes me is that with only a few words a strong feeling is called to the forefront in my mind. I used to think that poetry was merely a string of overly flowery phrases, but not anymore.

New question.

Of the five senses which is the easiest to write and which is the hardest?

Susan Sage link

2/3/2024 11:18:51 am

Right you are, Mark! I agree with you on all counts...

The toughest sense for me when trying to depict something is to remember to incorporate smells. This comes as a surprise to me because I've always had a fairly strong sense of smell. Still, it's the one I will frequently leave out. I find visuals the easiest to render, followed by senses of sound and hearing. It is nice to leave a little up to the reader's imagination--to make in-scene writing evocative, but not necessarily thoroughly addressed. I hope this makes sense.

Mark

2/3/2024 01:21:14 pm

Most authors I have talked with have said either smell or taste is the hardest to write about. We receive a very high percentage of our sensory input through our eyes. So, it makes a great deal of sense for visuals to be the easiest to describe. It makes me wonder what it would be like to read a book written by a person blind from birth.

New question.

Have you ever done any theater, written a play or any screenwriting?

Susan Sage link

2/3/2024 02:43:24 pm

I forgot to add sense of taste in my last answer...Taste is easier for me to write about than smell. It's about on the same level as hearing. Yes, I would love to read a book written by someone blind from birth. I'll never forget a book I read a long time ago about a soldier who lost his sense of sight and hearing. He was also mute and had lost all his limbs. I think it was called 'Johnny Get Your Gun' or something like that. He understood his condition, but couldn't communicate. Sound familiar?

I took an acting class back in high school, but that was about it. And no, I've never written a play or done any screenwriting. I'm sure it's probably helpful for authors to take a stab at it.

Mark

2/3/2024 06:03:40 pm

Taste is important without a doubt! Thanks for filling that in for us.

Johnny Get Your Gun sounds like an interesting read. I recall reading Helen Keller's story in middle school. That story impressed me deeply.

I have recommended to many authors that a class in screenwriting or playwriting would provide a useful tool or two in a writer's toolbox.

New question.

What kind of marketing, besides working with me this week, are you doing or planning on doing for your book?

Susan Sage link

2/3/2024 06:29:44 pm

I'll have to give screenwriting some more thought, Mark. Thanks for suggesting it.

I've cast a pretty wide net in regards to promotions this time around. My company does a fair amount (40%), but the rest is up to authors. I've done everything from hiring a few different companies to promote my book on various social media platforms, to interviews,and in-person events. I gave a talk to a group of professional women last fall, to a virtual book tour. Some of it has been costly, other things I've done--not so much. Have I touched all the bases? Oh my, no! I recognize the importance of getting book reviews, so I've done more to try to get them than ever before. Author swaps have proven to be by far the best way to procure them. While a few editorial reviews are probably important, to go overboard is unethical. Even if I was wealthy, which I'm not, I can't help but think that some authors buy bestseller status. I know that's a loaded accusation, but I'm afraid that's what many authors wind up doing. Some of them are well-deserving the status, but not all. While I would like to think I'm a little more savvy following my latest book, I also know that I went over my budget. I'm happy to know that 'Dancing in the Ring' has received a little more attention than 'A Mentor and Her Muse'--don't get me wrong. But live and learn, right?

Mark

2/3/2024 08:30:12 pm

When I was in construction, I learned pretty quickly the importance of having different tools. At one point I had ten different hammers and needed all of them, at one time or another. Knowing how to write a screenplay could become useful at some point even if you don't sell a screenplay.

You are taking care of business quite well. I think it takes many different channels to get the word out about your books. One of my favorite blogs is about pursuing the local author angle. How to be a marketing star right where you live. Another copy-and-paste link or search the title in the box below: https://annerallen.com/2019/08/hometown-book-marketing/ I would add a few tips, seek out literature teachers at the high school and college level to share in their class and there might be a club in the school. Local newspapers are a good resource for an interview as well as local cable access. There might also be a broadcast arts curriculum and/or a club at the high school and college level. Have some questions ready to hand the interviewer if they seem uncertain.

If there are tourist destinations try and place your books with the local author angle. Museums, gift stores, motels, hotels, tourist attractions are all possibilities. Keep a box of books in your trunk. Get a counter-top holder for a few books, paste a picture of the cover on the holder behind the books and put re-ordering information on the back of the holder.

Consider renting a table at a comic convention, county fair, farmer's market or a flea market. Have free swag to hand out such as a bookmark and sell mugs or posters. There are so many ways to be the 'local author' I doubt I have exhausted the list of possibilities.

I might have given you this link before but it might still be useful for you.

I have no doubt that spending a lot of money will help sell books.

New questions.

Have you bought any advertising on Amazon, Facebook or other platforms?

What were your results?

Susan Sage link

2/4/2024 08:18:07 am

Great possibilities in your list, Mark! Thanks for the link. I have sold my books at my local Farmer's Market and it proved definitely worthwhile. Another place I have found receptive, maybe because I'm an older woman, are Senior Centers. It's great to nab people when they are on their way into yoga classes--at least this has been my experience. Events at bookstores haven't always worked out as well as I'd hoped.

I like your screenplay idea!

I've made a few Facebook ads in the past with mixed results. I haven't advertised on Amazon. Some authors feel it's important to showcase books on both platforms.What do you think? I've heard it said that books sell a lot more Online than at in-person events. Have you heard this to be the case, as well? All I know is that selling books is a lot of work, so authors need to remember to have fun while they are doing so! Chances for indie authors to 'strike it rich' are few and far between, as we know. But who are these authors that get thousands of reviews? I'd like to know how they do it!

Mark

2/4/2024 12:22:55 pm

Senior centers are a great idea! People that age are generally more used to reading a book than consuming stories in other mediums as long as their eyes are working well.

Some people swear by Amazon ads or Facebook ads, others swear at one or the other and sometimes both. The ads on Amazon seem pretty tricky to me and could take several months to get dialed in. I haven't taken anytime to examine the process on Facebook. Here is another copy-and-paste link about keywords for your book on Amazon. How to Change Your Kindle Keywords, by Dave Chesson
https://annerallen.com/2020/09/how-to-change-your-kindle-keywords-by-dave-chesson

While the link might be dated, Chesson may have updated the information. I think his newsletter is worth signing up for. Another name to look for is David Gaughran. He makes a lot of videos.

Some authors say they sell more online, while others credit multiple in-person events. I suppose it boils down to where the most effort is played.

Selling books or any other product is a lot of work, no question. It could become a second career after writing books. Balance becomes more important unless you are tired of writing for a season.

I would like to know how the ultra-famous authors do it also.

New question.

Do you have a favorite song or a musical artist?

Susan Sage link

2/4/2024 12:44:07 pm

I greatly appreciate your information! While I'm aware of Dave Chesson, I don't know anything about David Gaughran. I'll definitely check out Gaughran's videos.

My favorite song or musical artist? I currently don't have a favorite song, but I have many favorite musical artists--probably too many to boil it down to one. I especially love music by Suzanne Vega, Judy Collins, the Beatles, Bob Dylan, and Louis Armstrong. I'm showing my age here, but oh well! I love all kinds of music with only a couple exceptions. Music adds so much to life, wouldn't you agree?

Mark

2/4/2024 03:07:49 pm

You are exposing my age also! Judy Collins, Mamas and Papas, Dylan and the Beatles and so many more I listened to when I was much younger. Music is now more background for me. I don't sit down to listen as a primary activity anymore.

New question.

How do you know when a book is complete, and you should stop working on it?

Susan Sage link

2/4/2024 03:32:48 pm

Yes, while I enjoy music, I rarely listen to music as a primary activity anymore either. I enjoy it on the background throughout the day and early evening.

Is a book ever finished?? My guess is not, but when I get to the point at which I can no longer tell if I'm improving it or making it worse--it's time to send it to my editor! Also, I pretty much know if I've said all the I wanted to say.

Mark

2/4/2024 07:01:15 pm

That is a good demarcation point! I like it.

There are a few writers who prefer to make one more round of edits instead of publishing. They fear rejection, I think. To be honest, the perfect book, universally loved and acclaimed, has yet to be written and never will be, I think.

New question.

How much time passed from when you got the idea to write your book; then actually starting to write the book?

Susan Sage link

2/4/2024 07:22:14 pm

Oooh, that's a really good question! I guess it's varied with every book I've written. After gettiing an idea, I'll make a few notes. Then, after several months of note-taking, I'll begin a really rough first chapter. Then I'll go back to my notes and turn them into more of an outline. If I'm sufficiently excited, I'll write the next chapter. To answer your question: I usually begin writing my new book around four to six months after getting my initial idea. When I worked full-time, it was a much slower process. I have several notebooks full of ideas and notes that never turned into even a rough draft. At this point, I know I'm not going to do anything with them, but I somehow can't throw them away. Most of the time, I can't even fathom why those ideas ever thought they could 'get off the ground' in the first place. I guess it makes me appreciate the ones I have written!

Mark

2/4/2024 09:30:15 pm

I like the style of your method. If I were a writer, I would probably have a similar style.

I understand about your notebooks, I would save them also. Each one represents a different creative moment in your life. I would rather have them and never use them than need one and not have it on hand.

I do have packrat tendencies and I see value in many ordinary items. After moving across the country, I have very little left of what I used to have. Do you remember the 10 or 12 hammers I used to have? I am down to two. A curved-claw hammer and a sheet metal hammer. I haven't used the latter since being here.

New question.

How long did it take you to write the first draft of this book?

Susan Sage link

2/5/2024 08:01:18 am

One of my long-held beliefs is that the difference between writers and readers is marginal. Writers are readers whose enthusiasm spills over into writing. Of course, adopting a rigorous writing routine is essential, too. Haven't you met so many people who profess to have "a book in them." I think we all do, but unless we take our writing selves seriously, we won't get the book out. That being said, I'm sure there are many people who simply enjoy reading for the knowledge or pleasure it gives them.

The draft of this book only took me a little over a year to write. Finished drafts of earlier books took much longer. Again, I think this was due to writing only part-time.

Mark

2/5/2024 01:10:12 pm

I like that perspective on the difference between writers and readers. It makes a good amount of sense to me.

I have met many who profess to want to write a book and few of them actually sit down and do it. I knew a young man who had a multivolume story plotted out in his head. It took him 45 minutes to describe it to me. I told him I was lost after the first 5 minutes. I encouraged him to write it down. I don't know if he ever did.

After having hung around with so many authors for many years now, I think I could write a passable story. But I don't sense a story within me that wants or needs to be written.

You are so correct about needing to be serious about writing a book. It is hard work to write a book that's easy to read. Many are those who give up after writing a few pages or chapters and then they understand the enormity of the task.

New question.

How many drafts did you go through to have a ready-to-publish manuscript?

Susan Sage link

2/5/2024 02:31:52 pm

I would like to believe that the young man figured out how to get such a long story out of his head. Poor guy!!

Mark, I went through at least ten drafts of my book before it was published it. Several small mistakes were discovered after publication. Luckily, the publisher allowed me to turn in the corrections, and a new release of the book came out about a month after it was initially published. I thought I could be my own editor by using ProWriting Aid. Lesson learned. I have a wonderful editor assisting me on my current manuscript.

Mark

2/5/2024 05:54:33 pm

I hope he at least wrote the idea down. He seemed quite smug in having it committed to memory.

Ten drafts does not surprise me. I know authors who have made more than that and a few who have done less.

ProWritingAid has it's uses as does Grammarly, Ginger and a host of others. But none of them can encompass the entire complexity of the English language. I have tested several and found them to be lacking in one or more areas.

I am glad you have a good editor, I think that is an essential step to produce an easy-to-read book. Let me know if you need a proofreader after all the editing and rewriting are done.

Last question.

Going back in time, did you do any kind of creative writing, even back in grade school?

Susan Sage link

2/5/2024 06:17:18 pm

I do know you are a proofreader extraordinaire, so I will definitely be in touch before my final draft will be due later this year!

I've always loved reading, but writing never came naturally to me. I distinctly recall copying a poem from a magazine and telling my mother that I wrote it. She called me on it. I'll never forget my embarrassment. I learned my lesson regarding plagiarism that day. I recall wanting to write about my neighborhood when I in the third or fourth grade, but not having a clue about how to begin a story. It wasn't until I was in junior high that I began writing poems. I received nice feedback from an English teacher about a story I wrote. After that point, there was no turning back...

Mark

2/5/2024 06:41:01 pm

Teachers figure in the stories of quite a few authors in recalling their first writing efforts.

I had different writing assignments when in high school also. I didn't receive any particular praise for my writing. I wanted to meet the objective as quickly as possible so I could resume reading the book I was engrossed in.

Our time has come to an end, and I want to thank you for being a fabulous guest again on the Word Refiner channel. I have enjoyed our chat immensely. I have another promotion that starts tomorrow.

Until next time, keep on writing.

Susan Sage link

2/5/2024 07:08:57 pm

Mark, thanks so much for having me on your channel! Answering your quesions was as fun as it was soul-searching.

I'm so glad that your business is thriving!!

All my best,
Susan

Dancing in the Ring by Susan E. Sage

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